tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6134723288757688995.post6001728568291024469..comments2023-08-11T08:43:45.182-06:00Comments on Following the Voice within: Dogs, Gays, Geese and ReasonabilityUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6134723288757688995.post-26841100081326792252010-09-27T00:52:28.646-06:002010-09-27T00:52:28.646-06:00No thanks, I'm full. Think we are sitting on ...No thanks, I'm full. Think we are sitting on different ends of the log on these questions, but that's fine, and it's your blog. Peace, bro.Russ Manleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05722260145543178087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6134723288757688995.post-44637878069357894762010-09-25T22:51:49.271-06:002010-09-25T22:51:49.271-06:00Regarding further study, I will admit that my pers...Regarding further study, I will admit that my personal focus at present is elsewhere and I haven't read nearly as much as there is out there. A few sources which leap out include Gareth Moore's <i>A Question of Truth</i>, Jack Roberts' <i>Jesus, the Bible and Homosexuality</i> and Daniel Helminiak's <i>What the Bible really says about Homosexuality</i>. <br /><br />One thing I find missing is any serious criticism of Boswell. Louis Crompton's <i>Homosexuality and Civilization</i> is the only scholarly work I have found which has questioned Boswell and his analysis basically says (30 years after the fact) that he was too selective in his sources. That said, his analysis is so fundamentally anti-Christian that I wonder if his own bias as a pioneering same-sex advocate who suffered at the hands of the Christian Right shows through.<br />If he is going after Boswell, it's only as a sideswipe - his big target is Foucault, whose 3 volume discussion on sexuality is recommended if you can get through the dwarf-star-dense prose.<br /><br />Hope this helps a bit.<br /><br />Pax,<br /><br />TimTimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04200045196217644013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6134723288757688995.post-34868015672992686352010-09-25T13:02:39.119-06:002010-09-25T13:02:39.119-06:00Of course, the Baptist and the Catholic churches t...Of course, the Baptist and the Catholic churches take in many, many millions of adherents, right? I did say "many," not all, and I'm aware of the slow, general trend among some Protestant churches, and that not without lively debate and controversy; but of course a lot depends on where you live. In the vast reaches between the two coasts, America is still a very homophobic place. Probably as you suggest in another generation or two, things will be different, but we're not out of the woods yet.<br /><br />I have both of Boswell's books; brilliant stuff and interesting hypotheses, but where's the confirmation by other scholars? And by the historical record? That's what I've not come across yet: if you know of some such sources, please blog those, I'd be interested in reading.Russ Manleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05722260145543178087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6134723288757688995.post-76300772860995519572010-09-24T18:17:54.396-06:002010-09-24T18:17:54.396-06:00Thank you for the kind words.
There has been some...Thank you for the kind words.<br /><br />There has been some follow-on work done in recent years regarding 'early church' Same Sex Unions (SSUs), but Boswell is certainly the foundational work which everyone and everything goes back to. I would highly recommend his other major work, <i>Christianity, Social Tolerance and Homosexuality</i> for a scholarly discussion of a Historical-Critical interpretation of what Scripture says vis a vis homosexuality. A thumbnail sketch would be that the Old Testament says the prohibition is a cultural signifier for Jews, but not an anathema, while the New Testament says don't pay the temple prostitutes for sex and don't deny your nature and have sex with the 'wrong' sex (defining wrong as being those against your nature).<br /><br />Regarding churches being accepting, I've found that it depends a lot more about the general social attitude of the area. I presently live in a very open and affirming area of the country and my own church community is quite welcoming to the LGBT community in general.<br /><br />One point to mention - your opening statement paints with a bit overly-broad brush by saying that all Christian faiths are against SSUs. Though the Roman Church, one main-line Protestant (Southern Baptist) and (to my knowledge) all evangelical Protestant churches forbid SSU, there has been a great shift in the Anglican/Epsicopalian, Lutheran, Methodist and Presbyterian churches over the last few years and most of the Independent Catholic Churches will perform SSUs. I expect that, as the fight for same-sex equality will be won in a generational fashion, so to will the acceptance of homosexuality within the general Christian community.<br /><br />Thanks again for your comments.<br /><br />Pax,<br /><br />TimTimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04200045196217644013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6134723288757688995.post-20701923995442933172010-09-24T17:10:56.983-06:002010-09-24T17:10:56.983-06:00Yes, that's exactly the problem if you are Chr...Yes, that's exactly the problem if you are Christian and gay: a classic double-bind, a Catch-22. And it will run you quite literally crazy. I know, I spent years searching the scriptures for the tiniest loophole, but there isn't one. <br /><br />I know some ingenious folks nowadays think otherwise, but I don't see it that way. And even if you can come up with a clever exegesis, you still run smack-dab into the brick wall of homophobia, even in many liberal-leaning churches. As an Episcopal priest I used to chat with put it, "The unwritten rule is, we don't mind if you're gay, as long as you don't talk about it in church." But I'm past the point of needing or wanting to play that kind of game now. Or of needing anyone to tell me what I can or can't do with my own body.<br /><br />BTW, your comments on church-blessed same-sex marriages are no doubt based on John Boswell's "Same-sex Unions in Pre-Modern Europe," which I found very exciting when I first read it. A brilliant scholar who died much too soon. Alas, I've never been able to find any other serious, well-credentialed academic historians who support his views and interpretations - have you?<br /><br />Nice blog you have here, keep up the good work.Russ Manleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05722260145543178087noreply@blogger.com